Project Inclusion had the pleasure of hosting Noa Gafni on our latest podcast episode, where we explored the power of bravery and presence in business and global social innovation. Drawing from her international upbringing, Noa offers a unique perspective on changemaking, highlighting how personal histories can shape and enrich global conversations on impact.
Key Questions Discussed:
- What does it take to facilitate conversations between world leaders?
- What conditions ignite global social innovation?
- How does international-scale impact begin?
In this episode, Dr. Noa Gafni shares her experiences shaping global impact at forums like Davos, the World Economic Forum, and the United Nations. Noa is a managing director at FSG, a global nonprofit partnering with foundations and corporations to create equitable systems change. She also teaches a course on Innovative Sustainability Leadership at Columbia University.
PI. Let’s get started. Tell us what you’ve been up to lately.
NG: First of all, thank you for having me. It’s exciting to be here. We’ve crossed paths several times over the years, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. Lately, I’ve been focusing on the intersectionality between inclusion and impact, and more importantly, how they can drive business and innovation more broadly. As you both know, there’s been significant pushback in the US on diversity, equity, inclusion, and environmental, social, and governance issues. Now is the time to move beyond buzzwords and discuss what these concepts truly mean and how they can drive good business.
PI: That’s so true. I’ve noticed that “inclusion” has become a loaded word, often associated with things unrelated to the actual impact of inclusion in an organization.
NG. Absolutely. There have been many misconceptions about what diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) really are and how we should engage with these sensitive and difficult topics. Often, we oversimplify issues or rely on buzzwords, which leads to misunderstanding. The terminology we use is crucial.
PI. Yes, it is. Reflecting on all the amazing work you’ve done and the impact you’ve had, can you share an example of something you set out to accomplish where the results surprised you?
NG. What a great question! I’m excited to share this. I’ve been fortunate in my career to help launch several initiatives, taking them from concept to reality. One particularly impactful project was helping to establish the Global Shapers Community at the World Economic Forum. This community is a network of young people under 30, based in different hubs around the world, many of whom are in the Global South. They collaborate on local impact projects, and we bring a group of them to Davos every year for the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting.
What’s exciting about this is that the meeting is full of CEOs, heads of state, and other influential figures who can make things happen. Bringing in this new stakeholder group of young people was a significant shift. Over a decade ago, right after the Arab Spring, world leaders realized they needed to engage with a new generation. One of the young people we brought to Davos for the first time was Gregory Rockson. He was 23, from West Africa, and living in D.C. He had an idea for a social enterprise while at Davos and ended up meeting the chairman of a major pharmacy chain in the US. This connection led him to create mPharma, a platform providing affordable healthcare services through pharmacies across West Africa. Gregory’s organization has since impacted tens of thousands of people and earned multiple awards.
Being able to place people like Gregory in environments like Davos or the UN, where they can connect with corporate leaders and access different types of power, is incredibly transformative. It’s something I’m proud to have contributed to throughout my career.
PI. Is there something you wish people at forums like Davos or the UN would talk about more or take more action on?
NG. The challenge with so many different kinds of people in the room is always in the doing, right? There’s a lot of goodwill, but how do you engage people who are extremely busy? They might spend 1% of their time attending a conference, and only a fraction of that thinking about social impact. The key is to use that small window to get them excited enough to want to dedicate more time—maybe even 10%—to these causes. I’ve seen it happen. Initiatives like the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) have shown how bringing diverse stakeholders together can lead to transformative thinking. When people start thinking big, they can get engaged in powerful projects.
PI. What is one of your favorite projects that you’ve ever worked on?
NG. A few years ago, I was involved in the lead-up to COP, the UN’s climate change conference. It was also about integrating young voices and those from the Global South. This was before the rise of figures like Greta Thunberg, before teenage climate activists were widely recognized. They weren’t invited to COP or Davos yet. We were one of the first organizations to bring them on the ground, connecting them with leaders like the then-CEOs of Unilever and PepsiCo, as well as former heads of state and other corporate leaders. It was impactful for these leaders to hear from a different generation about how the decisions they make, which might seem routine, could be game-changers for the next generation. These young people wanted business leaders to transform their products, services, and business models to become more sustainable, especially since we don’t have the luxury of time with climate change.
PI. In your work, you facilitate connections between different generations and personalities, bringing together seemingly disjointed perspectives. How do you facilitate these conversations and get everyone aligned?
NG. Inclusive impact has been the common thread throughout my career. It’s about bringing in diverse voices—whether women, young people, or those from the Global South—into global conversations and spaces where they’re not usually present, like seats of power. It’s challenging to get these people in the room, and even harder to get something meaningful out of those meetings. Often, we think just having a token stakeholder in the room is enough, but that’s only the first step. You need a critical mass of diverse individuals to achieve cross-pollination, where different perspectives lead to breakthrough innovations. Teams with similar backgrounds often only create incremental change, but with today’s challenges, we need breakthroughs.
The second step is cultivating creativity and managing creative tension. When people with different backgrounds work together, they bring different ideas, which can be frustrating. We need to recognize that there will be conflict and manage that tension creatively to drive better ideas. The final piece is co-creation. We can’t just design solutions for communities; we need to create them alongside the people who will benefit. Businesses and nonprofits aren’t typically set up for this, but it’s crucial for driving meaningful change.
PI. I just want to follow up on that. After you’ve created this “magic chemistry” with cross-pollination and all these amazing ideas, how do you ensure follow-through? How do you make sure that the brilliant ideas and energy from these sessions lead to action?
NG. I think we’re often afraid to set concrete targets because action is complex, and there’s always a risk of failure. But avoiding specific targets means avoiding accountability. It would be great to see more bold commitments—like funding a specific initiative to move from X to Y to Z. These are bold and complex challenges, but we need bold and complex thinkers willing to put their cards on the table. My advice is to set targets and, if we fail, openly discuss why.
PI. What’s something you do to set the stage for the right conversations to make that happen?
NG. Mirroring and modeling are key. It’s hard to get people to be authentic in a formal setting, but I always put my cards on the table. This can be disarming and encourages others to be vulnerable, which is crucial when discussing complex challenges. There’s a balance, of course, but people want to see the person behind the idea. Establishing common ground is also important. During my time at the World Economic Forum, I encountered people with very different political beliefs. Engaging in productive, sometimes challenging conversations with them was eye-opening. Today, we don’t see enough of that. Especially in the context of current conflicts, many people are unwilling to even consider opposing viewpoints, which hinders our ability to work towards shared goals like peace.
PI. Has there been any advice that has stuck with you and helped you navigate these complex situations?
NG. My father, who was Chilean, had a saying: “It’s better to be alone than in bad company.” I’ve interpreted this to mean that it’s okay to have unpopular opinions. It can be uncomfortable to speak up when everyone else in the room is saying one thing and you’re saying another, but it’s important. Groupthink is real, and it’s difficult to break through it. It may not always go over well, but it’s crucial to know that you can and should say something different when necessary.
PI That ties into what you were saying earlier about the importance of listening to others, even when they’re saying something you don’t want to hear or that doesn’t align with your views.
NG. Yes, and as we all know, that can be incredibly difficult.
PI. What’s the last piece of advice you’ve given someone?
NG. The last piece of advice I gave was to be brave. It was actually in a very different context: my son starting his school program for the first time. He’s very shy, but he walked in bravely, and it’s been a phenomenal experience for him—he’s really thriving. I think that’s a lesson for all of us. We get comfortable in our settings, and when the context changes, it’s really hard. But we have to consciously practice being brave and take those steps regularly.
PI. That applies to any age, no matter where you are in life. You don’t know how brave you are until you’re faced with a situation that requires it. So, what’s next for you? What are you working on?
NG. I’m working on building a coalition called the Inclusive Impact Initiative. It’s a new coalition of leaders from various sectors—government, corporate, academic, and those with lived experience—who are focused on the intersection of impact and inclusion. We’re saying that these principles are drivers for business growth and innovation. Despite the backlash against diversity, equity, inclusion, and environmental, social, and governance (ESG) principles, particularly in the US, these are not just buzzwords. They hold intrinsic value and are critical for the future of our world.
The world is becoming more diverse, and we need diverse teams to translate that diversity into growth and innovation. These principles are essential not just as a moral imperative but as a business strategy. There’s also a new generation in the workforce and as consumers who are voting with their feet in terms of impact. They expect CEOs to take stands on political issues, even though it can be a landmine. But the future is not about hiding in a quiet corner. This coalition is about showing leadership, bringing together organizations and leaders to make a stand and work on key issues at the intersection of impact and inclusion, using them as drivers of innovation.
PI. That sounds amazing. I can’t wait to see that unfold. Now, I’m curious—tell us about your background. You mentioned a Chilean father, being born in Israel, and now you’re here without any accent. How did you end up doing what you’re doing? What’s been your journey?
NG. I’ve lived and worked all around the world, but I grew up in New Jersey, so I consider myself mainly American. However, I come from a very diverse background. Every generation in my family was born in a different country. I’m fortunate to have three passports and family and friends all over the world. My career has taken me to places like Argentina, Australia, Israel, Switzerland, the UK, and the US. It’s been a beautiful journey, and I feel incredibly grateful.
But because I’ve landed in places where that’s not the norm, it’s humbling to see the backlash against people like myself. A few years ago, in the UK, during the Brexit debate, people like me were called “citizens of nowhere.” So, in a sense, I am a citizen of nowhere and everywhere. While that gives me a broad perspective, it has also taught me the importance of understanding local issues and contexts. The backlash against globalization has been a powerful lesson for me, showing that not everything is global—local needs matter too.
PI. That background puts you in a perfect position to talk about inclusion and impact. Can you share a story about the last time you saw someone else’s bubble burst—when they had an “ah-ha moment” or a turning point that changed their perspective?
NG. I’ll talk about my students at Rutgers, where I used to work. The Newark campus is one of the most diverse in the country, both socioeconomically and ethnically. It’s a complex environment with a lot of environmental and health challenges. A few years ago, my students asked if I could help them set up a tour of the UN because they knew I had worked closely with the organization. Instead of just a tour, I arranged for the CEO of the UN Foundation to come in and discuss a report my students had written about the future of work after COVID, focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Many of these students were essential workers during the pandemic, living in multi-generational households, and unable to take on unpaid internships during their studies. It was humbling to see how generous the UN Foundation’s CEO, Kathy Calvin, was with her time and feedback. But even more impactful was seeing my students’ bubble burst—they realized they could have a global connection and impact. It expanded their view of what they could achieve, and that was a powerful moment.
