What if everything we thought you knew about education was holding us back? It’s time to unlearn, reimagine, and step into the future of learning with CoLAB.

Listen to our latest podcast episode featuring “who” from CoLAB, an organization whose vision is to co-design next-ready resilient communities where education, creativity and social responsibility converge to drive impact in a rapidly changing world.

CoLAB is redefining education with a bold, student-centered philosophy that fuses design thinking, critical inquiry, creativity, and service. More than just a learning model, it’s an agile ecosystem designed to equip students with the skills and mindset needed to thrive in the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Unlike traditional approaches, CoLAB champions co-creation, student agency, and the exploration of limitless possibilities—drawing inspiration from quantum physics, psychology, and the sciences to challenge conventional wisdom.

•What happens when we bring people together in an environment that intentionally designs for critical inquiry, imagination, and creativity, turning K-12 education on its head?

•What happens when you infuse design thinking into the DNA of a classroom?

•How can we provide a pathway to advancement—one where people of all ages, inside and outside classrooms, can develop the skills and capacities to lead and realize potential in the fourth industrial revolution

•What do outcomes look like when we can rewrite traditional ways of teaching, and train educators to bring these next generation classrooms to life?

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Welcome to Project Inclusion – where we explore groundbreaking ideas in impact. I’m Fanny Krivoy, and today, Mindy Eng and I have two brilliant guests who are shaping the future of learning and school design.

First, we’re honored to welcome Dr. Adrian Manuel—an educational trailblazer and the director at The Metro, a NoVo initiative in Kingston. With a deep passion for reimagining learning environments, Dr. Manuel is leading transformative efforts to create educational models that truly serve students and communities.

Also joining us is Bill Clarke, a visionary in school design and leadership development. Bill has dedicated his career to supporting the launch, redesign, and evolution of schools, districts, and organizations across the country. Through expert facilitation and leadership coaching, he’s helping educators reimagine what’s possible.

Today, we’ll dive into their insights on designing innovative, student-centered education systems, the challenges they’ve faced, and the opportunities that lie ahead.

Get ready for an inspiring conversation! Let’s jump in. 

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PI: How is CoLAB’s approach to teaching different than the way schools teach now? And how does quantum physics fold into your teaching philosophy?

Adrian: I think for anybody listening to this podcast, especially if you’re from the States. I heard this quote a long, long time ago. It’s probably quoted from somebody else. And I’m going to wrangle the quote. But I remember a long time ago hearing somebody in education that I admired, I think it was a professor in one of my graduate classes said, the problem with education is that everybody in the US has a really strong, deep opinion because we’ve all gone through the school system. We’ve all had to sit through kindergarten through 12th grade, and maybe some of us spent more time or less time. But whether you’re in New York or California or Texas, the school system across the country is not very different. There are certainly differences in terms of policies and approaches and some other things. And certainly there are differences between district schools, charter schools, independent schools, private schools, micro schools or whatever else I’m missing that’s out there. However, on average, what you’ll find is classrooms where the teacher is predominantly the main voice in the room, the giver of knowledge for the students. The students are there to absorb that knowledge and maybe in a really strong classroom, have opportunities to have dynamic learning where they’re having conversations or critical thinking, or they’re working collaboratively on something. But that kind of time whittles away, especially in our system as you move up to high school. Right. And what you find is that in elementary school and possibly middle school, there’s a lot more interactions around students conversations, projects, activities, partly because of the socialization that they need at the early ages.

And by the time you get to high school, there seems to be a lot more lectures. Students trying to pass AP courses or in New York State Regents courses that are very content heavy and that have a very formulaic approach to essay writing and research writing that we have to make sure all students understand so they can get maximum points on their essays. And I find that in my head to be all the paradigms of traditional schools and we’re CoLAB is different is we want to blow that up. We really think that in the world that we’re in now, and we’re where a lot of the trends are going, we need to prepare students much more dynamically. They need to be critical thinkers. They need to be good communicators. I think even that good communicators, as one example, is a good one, because a lot of teenagers now, especially the one I have in my house upstairs, have a hard time looking you in the eyes and having a conversation or having a long deep conversation because they they tend to socialize on social media with really short conversations or acronyms or emojis or I can’t keep up with all the slang from the teenager sometimes. And I think, that’s what my son has on me.

But the point is there’s skill sets that we think are important in the world, interpersonal skill sets, critical thinking skill sets. The world has become much more information oriented. We have a great wealth of access to things, but most people don’t know how to utilize it strategically or critically. And so we spend time thinking about that. And so CoLAB really comes from a place to center, learning from the student side and really give students agency and really give students opportunities to look at issues in their community in the world and start thinking about what can they do to mobilize around solutions. Then really think about the types of careers that students may be going into, be it a world that’s highly integrated with AI. A world that has a lot of political and civic unrest, whether it’s locally, nationally or globally. A world that’s dealing with climate change. These are major issues, and I know I’m missing some, but our students are growing into a world of an abundance of challenges that are unprecedented; and we think there needs to be a skill set, a set of competencies and a set of character traits that will put our students in a position to be much more effective and successful in the world that they’re moving into. The traditional school is just not going to do that anymore.

Going back to your part about quantum physics, The thing about quantum physics, when you really look down and you zoom in on the particles like the electron, you notice that it’s nothing more than vibrating energy fields.

Without getting into the science of it, there’s a concept in quantum physics called superposition. It suggests that, depending on how you observe or interact with an energy field, all possibilities can exist at once. This leads to some mind-bending ideas—like alternate dimensions and multiverses. If you’ve watched a Marvel movie lately, you’ve seen the concept of multiverses in action. Or take Everything Everywhere All at Once, an Academy Award-winning film from a year or two ago—one of my favorites—because of its connection to quantum physics. At its core, it’s really about exploring the space of possibility.

That’s a helpful way to think about it: possibilities exist. But our mental paradigms—the ways we’re taught to think and operate—are often so rigid and formulaic that we get stuck. We forget there are many other ways to think and approach problems.

This idea of “playing in the space of possibility” directly relates to the types of pedagogical approaches we want to bring to students. We believe these approaches expand students’ sense of what’s possible rather than limiting it. For example, in many traditional American high schools, by ninth or tenth grade, students are already tracked into a specific field of study. The structure of school can narrow their future options—for college, for career choices, even for how they see themselves as adults.

Because of factors like race, demographics, or socioeconomic status, some students are only offered a narrow range of opportunities. So for us, the question is: how do we design a school where every student feels they have the chance to explore and become their best self? That could mean developing skills they already have, diving deeper into their existing passions, or discovering new interests they never knew they had—simply because they hadn’t been exposed to them before.

We see ourselves as opportunity creators, not gatekeepers. Our goal is to expand, not restrict, the field of possibility for students.

That’s the short version of how quantum thinking connects to education. But put simply, we want to create a “playground of opportunities”—for both students and adults. Because for this kind of learning environment to work, adults need to be just as agile and open-minded in their thinking. As Bill said so well, adults must be willing to stretch themselves in order to hold space for possibility—for every student.

I’d rather oush my thinking and have new ver

 

Bill: This is why we’re such a good match—because we’re both working in the realm of vibrations. The question then becomes: how do you bring that into a classroom or a school, especially one that’s still structured around traditional systems like grades 9 through 12? We still need to operate within that framework.

Maybe we think of that structure as a kind of “cell wall”—a boundary that holds everything together. The question is: what are the particles that strengthen it? A few things come to mind.

Adrian touched on something we talk about all the time: changing the schema. That’s really what we’re doing—attempting to shift not just the broader educational schema, but our own personal ones too. When Adrian talks about “learning like hell,” that’s exactly it. We’re challenging ourselves to rethink the frameworks we were raised in—and that we often have to uphold in the schools we work with—because those schemas are still in place. We have to play within them, but CoLAB offers us an opportunity to create an exception.

From a scientific standpoint, this ties into exercising the neuroplasticity we all still have. The schema that forms from birth through 8th grade shapes our understanding of what school is. Others before us have tried to redefine that, and many have had some success. But we’re asking deeper questions—through a quantum lens—about what fundamental shifts are needed. How do synapses connect differently when we change the schema?

We’re trying to shift that understanding with students, but we also know the adults need to shift their schemas too, so they can model that change. That, to me, comes down to facilitation. When we talk about design thinking—and yes, it’s everywhere now—the real value isn’t just in the tools or the protocols. It’s in creating the space for it. That’s the most critical piece.

If you can’t create the space for this kind of learning, then it’s a fool’s errand. One concept I return to often is andragogy—the method and practice of teaching adults. Even in traditional classroom settings, where students are physically present, we’re exploring how blended learning can open up global experiences—like being in New Haven but engaging with content or people in Liberia.

Andragogy shifts the focus from simply delivering content to co-creating knowledge. Unlike pedagogy, which often centers on transmitting foundational skills, andragogy assumes that learners already bring valuable experience to the room. It’s about facilitation, not just instruction. To me, andragogy means: the answer is in the room. It invites co-creation and collaboration.

We’re pulling from quantum physics here—thinking about vibrations, connections, and how we facilitate those connections. This ties into neuroscience: how synapses connect, how myelin forms between neurons, and how knowledge is co-constructed. It’s not about showing up with a PowerPoint and a set of activities. It’s about cultivating an ecosystem where new knowledge can emerge.

And now, with the rise of co-intelligence—especially AI—we have new tools to extend that co-creation. AI isn’t just an add-on; it becomes part of the learning process. The point is: adults need to shift how they think about learning in order to model and support these changes in the classroom. That’s how we begin to shift the schema.

But here’s where we also stay grounded. Educators will rightly ask: What if they can’t read? That’s real—and we take it seriously. We’re fully aware of the existing educational landscape and the importance of fundamental literacy, especially in the communities we work with.

In the early days of CoLAB, we imagined a school that would “vibe at a different level”—a place to shift schemas. But we quickly realized: we’re not just a tech-forward school. We’re a literacy school. We’re committed to a broader definition of literacy. Yes, we’ll teach students the fundamentals—how symbols carry meaning, how letters form words, how sentences can change the world. But we’ll also teach them to read a room.

In CoLAB, literacy spans a spectrum. It’s about giving students the foundation to engage in deeper learning while also helping them connect, communicate, and co-create—with each other and with the adults around them. Think of it like building up electrons that can link to larger bodies of knowledge and creativity. Both fundamentals and higher-level engagement are essential—and they can happen simultaneously.

CoLAB has currently two ways of operating. One is CoLAB education. It was formed in order to start charter high schools with an entrepreneurial spirit. How do we test some of the things that we want to do in our high school and the world?

Before high school officially began, we started thinking seriously about what kind of culture and mindset we needed—not just for students, but for the adults as well. If we’re aiming to build an agile ecosystem within the school, then the adults involved must also embody that mindset.

As a first step, we designed a 12-week design sprint for high school students, which we piloted in Providence, Rhode Island, with the help of an excellent local facilitator. The feedback was overwhelmingly positive, and it helped reinforce our belief in the importance of building this kind of agile ecosystem—not only for our school’s success but also for preparing students for the challenges of the Fourth Industrial Revolution.

Since then, we’ve shared this model in various places—including London, Wisconsin, and elsewhere—to gather feedback and continue improving it. At the same time, we were invited into a community in New Haven, Connecticut, which led Adrian and me to ask: What does it look like to not only accept that invitation but to show up as thoughtful collaborators?

That question has led us to co-develop what we’re calling a CoLAB, a space for generative practices rooted in partnership with the local community. The idea is to engage not just future students and teachers, but also adults who may support the school in other ways—through business, volunteering, or leadership. By collaborating with our lead community partner in New Haven, we’re working to establish an ecosystem that mirrors the way we plan to operate the school.

To bring this vision to life, we’re launching what we call a City Sprint. It’s a CoLAB innovation designed to activate that ecosystem by bringing together people from all walks of life to co-create solutions for real challenges in New Haven. The key is that we’re not coming in with the answers. Instead, we’re creating space for local voices to lead the way through a design thinking process—generating ideas, testing solutions, and perhaps even catalyzing the next community project or initiative.

So, that’s the 411. This fall, we’re putting our philosophy into action. We’re training a cohort of facilitators—starting as early as next week—and setting the tone for how we want to engage in New Haven: not by telling, but by showing.

 

Adrian: I just wanted to add a few thoughts, building on what Bill said earlier. He mentioned that we have this window of time—anywhere from a year to two, maybe even two and a half years—before our first high school opens. Of course, that depends on everything aligning with our authorizer, the review process, and ultimately getting approved. But right now, we’re in a really valuable pre-launch phase.

From my end, my thinking tends to be a bit messier than Bill’s—he’s been laying out a really nice, structured flow of activities. I’ve been focusing on three main areas lately, and the first is learning.

I’m constantly reading, exploring, and absorbing as much as I can—but ironically, not always from education sources. If you walk into a bookstore today, especially a college bookstore or a place like Barnes & Noble, the education section can be pretty disappointing. Most books focus on school reform, equity, or college prep, but very few truly reimagine the education landscape. They tend to reinforce the same paradigms we’ve followed for decades. But at CoLAB, we’re asking a different question: What does school success look like now and in the future, especially given the rapid changes in technology, society, the economy, and global systems?

So my learning comes from a wide range of fields—social sciences, global events, psychology, science. For example, I just read Entangled Life by Merlin Sheldrake. It’s about fungi and how their networks—through mycelium—support life on Earth. It dives into systems of communication, feedback loops, and mutual support in nature. As I read it, I couldn’t help but draw metaphors to people, education, and learning ecosystems. That kind of thinking feeds directly into how I view CoLAB. It also connects to my interest in quantum physics, which has influenced our concept of the “quantum learning matrix”—a model that allows students to thrive in many directions and possibilities, much like particles existing in multiple states.

So learning is my primary mode of operating right now—deep, interdisciplinary learning that’s helping shape our vision.

The second focus is strategizing. Taking all this learning and asking: How do we use this window of time wisely before we launch our first school? One strategy Bill touched on is community engagement. For example, in New Haven, where we hope to open a school, we’re connecting with local leaders and advocates to co-create solutions around real issues. We’re doing that through a design thinking process—something we want to bring into classrooms eventually. But first, we need adults—educators, community members, stakeholders—to understand and feel comfortable with that approach.

Most importantly, we need communities to understand who we are and what we stand for. That foundation of trust and collaboration is critical. And this pre-launch period gives us a rare chance to build it thoughtfully.

The second big focus for me is strategizing—thinking about how to use the time we have before the school opens to pilot practices, explore partnerships, and introduce CoLAB’s methodology through meaningful entry points. It’s about being intentional: planning ahead while staying agile enough to respond to what emerges.

The third key area is leveraging relationships. Bill and I have been in education for over two decades, and over that time, we’ve built a strong network of colleagues, mentors, and partners. We’re continually inspired by the people we’ve met along the way, and now is the time to tap into those relationships—whether it’s getting feedback from a trusted thought partner or exploring collaborations with schools whose missions align with ours. We might say, “Hey, we’d love to share this idea—would your teachers be open to piloting it?” That kind of relationship-based outreach is essential to how we’re building CoLAB.

So right now, I’m focused on learning, strategizing, and relationship-building. It’s a bit of a messy space, but that’s the nature of what we’re doing. CoLAB was designed to stay responsive to change—whether in education, technology, or society at large. We expect to remain in dynamic motion, constantly learning and adapting.

One of the models we’ve developed that reflects this approach is what we call the 4D Quantum Learning Matrix. This framework emerged from our shared interest in systems thinking, quantum theory, and the concept of superposition—the idea that multiple possibilities can exist at once. We identified four core areas that, when combined in a school environment, create the conditions for transformative learning. While this can apply broadly, we’re currently focused on high schools.

The four dimensions are:

1. Inquiry – This is our foundation. We see inquiry not just as a teaching strategy, but as a mindset. It’s about asking questions, thinking critically, and engaging deeply with ideas. As Bill mentioned earlier, it requires strong literacy skills—students need to know how to navigate different paradigms and frameworks of thought.
2. Design Thinking – We bring this into classrooms to help students see themselves as problem solvers and creators. Design is not just for professionals—it’s a process of empathy, experimentation, and iteration. It shows students that real-world solutions are within reach and that their ideas matter.
3. Creativity – Too often, creativity in high school is limited to electives like art or music. We believe creativity belongs in every subject. As a former history teacher, I encouraged students to think like historiographers—to question narratives, analyze evidence, and construct new interpretations. Creativity in this context is about thinking differently and seeing new connections.
4. Service Learning – This is where everything comes together. We want students to apply their inquiry, design, and creative thinking to real-world challenges. It’s about meaningful engagement with their communities—locally, regionally, or globally. Whether it’s managing a project or addressing a neighborhood issue, students learn by doing.

These four dimensions create a kind of “learning ecosystem” that mirrors the complexity and interconnectedness of the real world. And in a way, AI is a perfect analogy. It represents the exponential growth of possibilities when you know how to use a tool effectively.

Take ChatGPT, for example. I joke with my family that I always ask, “Did you put that through ChatGPT?” They’re tired of hearing it—but it’s true! My wife and I were hiking recently after a rainstorm and came across some mushrooms. I’d just read Entangled Life, a book about fungi and mycelial networks, and I was curious. So we snapped a picture and used ChatGPT to help identify it. That one moment opened up a whole world for her—she started photographing other plants, asking questions, getting curious.

That’s the kind of mindset we want to nurture in students: curiosity, exploration, and the confidence to ask, “What if?” With the right ecosystem in place—supported by inquiry, design thinking, creativity, and service—we can unlock the kind of learning that’s expansive, relevant, and deeply human.

Yes, we have AI as a tool—and even as a kind of friendly resource—in the room. For me, that’s a powerful analogy: just as AI is opening up a world of possibilities, we want students to experience that same sense of possibility in their own lives. We want them to leave our schools believing in a wide range of futures for themselves—futures they started building in our classrooms.

Traditional high school often doesn’t do that. It labels students with numbers, funnels them into narrow tracks, and sends mixed messages based on socioeconomic status, race, gender, or even the politics of the local district or curriculum. It often reinforces limits instead of expanding horizons.

We want to disrupt that. Our goal is to create learning experiences where students not only meet high standards but do so in ways that are unconventional, future-facing, and deeply aligned with the world they’re stepping into—and the worlds they want to create.

PI: Given your vast experience, we’re curious—before developing this model, you must have experimented with different approaches. What were some of the things you tried? And what unexpected outcomes or reactions have stayed with you from those experiments?

Bill: I had an experience recently with a group of teachers—actually, it was this week. We were brainstorming ideas around literacy, and I noticed something that Adrian and others have probably observed too: the messiness that often comes with facilitation. It’s common to feel a bit lost when managing all the ideas from sticky notes or group discussions, especially when you’re trying to make sense of it all. But there’s a great opportunity here—thanks to new technology, like co-intelligence and AI.

For instance, we were looking at a scatter plot of sticky notes, trying to figure out what it all meant. After a bit of conversation and organizing, I decided to take a picture of the chaos and throw it into ChatGPT. It immediately highlighted patterns and simplified the mess, identifying five key themes. The teachers were amazed at how quickly AI could help make sense of the information. Of course, you need to validate the results, critically evaluate them, and ensure they make sense, but it showed the power of technology to enhance co-creation in the moment.

I’ve found that using tools like AI in real-time makes sessions more engaging and applicable to adults, which is a big shift in how we usually think about technology in education. When teachers experience this firsthand, it really opens their minds to the possibilities. In my work, which often involves coaching adults, I’m seeing a growing shift in how they think about creating environments for co-creation and thinking differently. CoLAB education embodies this, where we don’t simply teach people but bring together their collective knowledge to co-construct ideas. It’s about creating a community, not just a classroom.

This has also shown up in our work with high school students. We did a design sprint with them, and we saw how flexible leadership and giving students space to be creative can lead to breakthroughs. However, there was an interesting dynamic—when students left the classroom, that creativity didn’t always carry over. Even in a highly innovative environment, once they returned to traditional school structures, the momentum seemed to fizzle. We saw this happen even with students who came up with amazing solutions during the sprint, some of which were later applied at the school.

This highlights two key things: the importance of creating an environment where creativity is valued—where it’s the currency of the classroom—and the ongoing challenge of making sure those innovative experiences extend beyond the classroom walls. It’s a constant reminder that both students and adults need to continuously retrain themselves to think differently about what’s possible.

Adrian: About 10 or 11 years ago, I was the head of a charter boarding school serving grades 6 through 12 in an inner-city area. The school provided free education, which was unusual for inner-city students who typically couldn’t afford boarding schools. When I arrived, I was impressed by how well the students were performing. We had a nearly 95% graduation rate, and over 90% of students were going off to four-year colleges. However, we struggled with middle school students who came in behind and needed to catch up.

In my first year, I spent a lot of time talking with students, especially those in the boys’ dorms. Many of them were first-generation college-bound students, and we were really focused on transforming their lives and, ultimately, generational wealth. But I noticed a pattern in the students’ college aspirations: most of them wanted to study humanities, and I realized we were missing the bigger picture of career possibilities.

So, after listening to students’ ideas and encouraging their input, we decided to create an entrepreneurial course that incorporated design thinking, with a focus on local economic issues and how to start a business. We brought in partners and introduced a program called STEAMED—adding “Entrepreneurialism” to the existing STEM and arts framework. The students worked on real-world projects where they designed products or services, opened LLCs, and learned about banking and finance. The culmination of the course was a “Shark Tank”-like event where students presented their business proposals, prototypes, and even tested their ideas in the community.

I was one of the judges each year, and it was incredible to see how the students, many of whom had never considered entrepreneurship, gained confidence and saw themselves as potential business owners. One student, for example, created a 3D printing business that printed cell phone cases for fellow students. They planned to reinvest their earnings into expanding their business. Other students tackled sustainability issues, developing projects around climate change and pollution.

This entrepreneurial course gave students the tools and confidence to think beyond traditional academic pathways. Some students went on to major in business, but even more had a better sense of their own capabilities and how to innovate. Without this course, they would have simply followed the standard curriculum without ever considering the broader world of opportunities.

While not every student became an entrepreneur, this experience expanded their vision of what was possible for their futures. This is why we call it the Quantum Learning Matrix—because when we bring certain pedagogical approaches into the classroom, we amplify students’ opportunities for growth, both academically and personally. They develop crucial skills, build confidence, and broaden their sense of what they can achieve.

Looking back, I realize that the school’s traditional components clashed with this new approach. Some students didn’t want to take the entrepreneurial course because it felt like extra work, or they didn’t see it as essential for graduation. But as educators, we want to design environments that give students these kinds of transformative experiences.

That’s why CoLAB is so meaningful to me—it’s where the ideas I developed in the past, combined with what Bill and I have learned and are passionate about, can be brought together to shape a new school design. We’re building a school ecosystem that empowers students to see their full potential and equips them with the skills and mindset to succeed in a rapidly changing world.

Bill: Years ago, I worked at a charter school in Providence, Rhode Island, where students had an hour and a half, three times a week, to engage with their own interests. Some of them even went on to start new organizations or activities. While we didn’t have the formal science of design thinking behind us at the time, the experience was similar. It was an innovation that allowed students to co-create, develop new knowledge, and express themselves in meaningful ways. But this should not be an exception—it should be the norm.

Both Adrian and I have entrepreneurial spirits, and we live our lives that way. Our children do too, but why should that mindset be limited to just a few? Why can’t it be the standard for everyone? In CoLAB, we think about how to express value in meaningful ways—how to make time, structures, and protocols reflect the things we value. This is how we create currency in the sense of what we value most. It’s essential, like water—something we drink, eat, and sleep with.

While we are still focused on developing essential academic skills like reading, writing, and math, it’s important that these skills have real-world purpose. We don’t just want students to get better for the sake of grades—we want them to improve for a reason. That’s the essence of what we’re striving for in CoLAB. Some people may refer to this as Kool-Aid, but I think that’s unfairly associated with negative connotations. In truth, what we’re offering is more like water: it’s essential, it finds a way, and it sustains growth. If we invest in this approach, it shouldn’t be an exception—it should be the rule. We’re excited to bring the CoLAB approach into schools and communities as the foundation of our work.

Before I forget, Bill reminded me about the literacy aspect of that entrepreneurial course. Students had to write business plans, research ideas, and engage in financial literacy, exposing them to math they might not have encountered otherwise. They also studied biographies of entrepreneurs, which helped develop their reading and writing skills. It wasn’t just about inventing an entrepreneurial idea—it was about deep literacy development, including reading, writing, research, presentation, and communication.

Students also had to engage with real people—business owners, educators, and members of the community—so they honed their listening and verbal communication skills. This course was a dynamic example of how to merge various subjects, like English, math, and social-emotional development, through innovative design thinking. It’s proof that schools can be more than just traditional subjects. By integrating creative, real-world work, students can develop essential skills that go beyond the classroom.

PI: So we’re talking about reimagining K through 12 education. We’re talking about learning to think differently ourselves, where we’re learning to tap into learning from unusual places. And so I want to ask you, do you have a hobby or a habit of yours that’s really surprised you, right? And how it’s shaped your perspective or thinking around the things that you do?

Adrian: I can jump in here. Over the years, I’ve had a few consistent hobbies, but the one that stands out the most is my love of books. Ever since I was a child, I’ve enjoyed reading, often seeking out books that I wouldn’t initially think would interest me—especially in fields I’m not familiar with. I’ve found that reading from unexpected sources really broadens my perspective and expands my thinking, and I love that.

Growing up, I was fortunate in that even though we were on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum, my dad loved books and talking about them. He was a scientist—a biologist—and he often talked to me about physics, atoms, and electrons. I was more of a history person, so I didn’t always love hearing about science, but it gave me a strong foundation of knowledge. Later on, when I started reading things like quantum physics and psychology, I could absorb the information quickly because I had that foundational knowledge from home.

I was also lucky to have a public library just two houses away. Most of the kids in my neighborhood would play kickball in the parking lot, but I’d go inside. They had comic books, which I loved, and I could only read them there—couldn’t take them out. They also had encyclopedias, and I remember being fascinated by just flipping through them, discovering all kinds of new and exciting information.

As an adult, one of my hobbies is going to Barnes & Noble and browsing for books that, at first glance, may not seem to be in my usual interest area. I’ll pick them up, often buy them, and add them to my collection. I’ve found some really thought-provoking books this way. For example, I read a book about mushrooms and mycelium networks after reading The Hidden Life of Trees, which completely blew my mind about the dynamics of nature.

So, while reading may not seem like an exciting hobby to some, I find great joy in discovering new ideas and topics I wouldn’t normally seek out. And it often ends up feeding back into my work in education, as it’s all about expanding the mind and developing new skills. I might not call it an exciting hobby, but it’s definitely one that stimulates my thinking in unique ways.

 

Bill: Adrian and I share many similarities, but we also have some unique differences. One commonality is our love for buying books, and though we both enjoy sharing titles and ideas, our approaches differ. Adrian often surprises me with his ability to apply new ways of thinking, which is something we both find joy in. We enjoy taking odd or unconventional ideas and applying them to our work, constantly trying to figure out how to untangle problems and reframe them in new ways.

Both Adrian and I travel a lot, and during my travels, I make a habit of listening to books. I tend to gravitate toward fiction, especially long, 15-hour books that keep me engaged during drives. While I am deeply immersed in nonfiction work, I appreciate fiction as a way to balance my intellectual focus. I find inspiration in both the works of authors like Jeff Seltzer and Ethan Mollick, who focus on questioning and co-intelligence, and in the imaginative worlds created in the fiction books I listen to. This habit of alternating between fiction and nonfiction has become a crucial part of my routine.

This concept of habit development is central to what we’re building in CoLAB. We aim to create environments where habits, like hobbies, are both enjoyable and consistent. Hobbies, after all, become habits when we enjoy doing them regularly. At CoLAB, we’re focused on cultivating habits that might feel unusual or challenging at first, knowing that it takes around 17 days to form a habit. Whether it’s daily reading or writing, our goal is to foster habits that people look forward to—like the enjoyment of a morning coffee.

One of my personal habits that I want to develop further is drawing. It’s a hobby that also serves as a powerful tool for creating meaning and expression, both for myself and others. I actually sketch faster than I write, and I have countless drawings on my iPad. This habit brings me joy because it allows me to invent new ideas and systems. Growing up, I used to sketch constantly, and while life has led me away from that practice, I’m now rediscovering the joy of creating visual representations of new concepts. Drawing also allows me to engage with knowledge in a way that words alone cannot.

There’s a broader community of people, like Dave Gray, who are also using drawing to explore systems thinking and metaphors, and I find that incredibly helpful. I’m less interested in being told an answer than in being shown a way of thinking about an answer. This aligns closely with our approach at CoLAB. James Clear, author of Atomic Habits, provides an insightful definition of creativity that resonates with our work: “Creativity is the focused combination of unlikely things.” This concept really clicked for me—it encapsulates what we’re trying to do at CoLAB.

Unfortunately, in traditional education, many things have become unlikely. It’s rare for students to activate their own knowledge or come to class with new ideas and vocabulary. But we’re trying to change that by creating a space where unexpected, unpracticed ideas can flourish—where students can step into the gray areas, the overlap of different ideas and disciplines. These liminal spaces are where transformation happens, and it’s where we want students to thrive.

The world around us is constantly changing, and the value of work is shifting. Education needs to catch up. By bringing together concepts like the 4D quantum matrix and the principles from the World Economic Forum’s Education 4.0, we’re working to merge the latest thinking with the needs of today’s students. This approach will allow us to not only prepare students for a rapidly changing world but also help them find joy and purpose in what they learn—ultimately enabling them to develop hobbies and skills that matter to them.

Great question—it led us down a path I didn’t expect, but it was a rewarding exploration!

 

PI: The next set of questions are flash questions. Question number one. What’s something you wish more people talked about or acted on? And you’ve told us a lot about that today, but is there something in particular you wish people talked more about?

Bill: I have one big issue: the obsession with “failing forward.” People often talk about it, write books on it, and even try to build communities around failure. Honestly, I think the term shouldn’t even exist. It’s not something we need to label or overemphasize—it’s just part of the process.

When we try something new, failure is expected. It’s not a big deal. It’s simply how we learn. Redefining success is key to this mindset. Success isn’t about perfection; it’s about testing ideas, failing, learning, and then improving. It’s about doing something small, adjusting, and moving toward the bigger goal with the knowledge that every failure is just a step toward getting better. So, let’s focus on getting 1% better with each attempt.

PI: There’s a great improv game that ‘s about celebrating failure, by the way. So people fail and everybody cheers. 

Bill: Oh, you gotta get it!

 

Adrian: I’m gonna approach it differently. I wish people spent more time talking through the deep paradigms within their professional world. The reason I say that is because in education, especially for the educators listening. And Bill hears this from me a lot usually sounds like a complaint or a rant from me. But in our world, and because we’ve been doing this for over two decades, we’ve taken on the vernacular of our field, we talk about things in certain ways, we use certain terminology. And this is in all fields. Right? And so in education right now, we tend to talk about students based around equity frameworks, based around testing frameworks based around policy frameworks that have been in place that have really narrowed our thinking for decades around the possibility of the education space. And so what I wish people talked more about was just being self aware of those things, because I think that’s the first step to blowing them up or exposing them to other ideas or frames. Right. So that’s where my mind goes. It’s not one thing. It’s just I wish more people were. I don’t know if it’s humility. I don’t know what it is. I think it’s different for different people. But I wish we had more opportunities in our education world to really talk deeply about the entrenched policies and terminologies and pedagogical approaches that were so rooted in, but most of us have been taught them or been indoctrinated or just had to work within those constraints.

And we don’t spend as much time talking about all the possibilities. And I’m a person of history, so I know in history there’s people that were the cogs in the machines. And going back to what Bill said, there’s people who are the oddballs who thought differently, pushed for different things, and usually they didn’t always recognize things in their time. But those are the people that really move things. I think there’s a quote by George Bernard Shaw that I love. I used to share it all the time. I’m going to probably wrangle it now, but it was something like the irrational man adapts to the world around him. The rational man adapts to the world around him. The irrational man expects the world to adapt to his vision. I’d rather be an irrational man. I’d rather push my thinking and have new visions and try to push the world there. Because if you’re just adopting what is, you’re just going with what has always been. And in education, we really need a breakthrough. So I wish more people talked in that space.

Bill  Love it.

 

PI: What’s something you do that has helped you set the stage for a lot of great conversations?

Adrian: One of the most important things I can do for a meaningful, honest conversation is to practice humility. When I do this—though not always perfectly—my mind becomes open to truly hearing what the other person is saying. I become more receptive to changing my perspective and more interested in their story. Too often, we’re focused on getting the other person to understand our point of view. For me, a great conversation starts with self-awareness and humility, allowing us to be open to learning from each other.

Bill:  Yeah, I would say for sure that vulnerability ties that to that as well.

Adrian: Humor is critical.

Bill: Really? I never noticed that from you.

Adrian: I know, right? I don’t like to laugh.

Bill: That’s why we don’t have good conversations all the time.

Adrian: That’s what it is.  Sometimes, my humor might not land, but I think self-effacement plays a role here—it ties into humility and vulnerability. There’s something deeply satisfying about acknowledging that, in front of a group or in a conversation, I don’t have all the answers. I’m creating a space for learning and growth alongside everyone else. I may have some expertise to share, but I’m also here to learn. I’m just the lead learner, not the one preaching. Humor and vulnerability fit well together in this context, especially in facilitation.

I often share a personal story with teachers about a student I failed, and I’ll leave the name out here, but the experience sticks with me. We all have those moments where we feel like we’ve failed a student. From an educator’s perspective, sharing that vulnerability is powerful. It’s authentic, and it’s something I think about every day. It’s part of why I do this work—I don’t want to fail like that again. That authenticity helps others connect, because they’ve likely had their own moments of failure. And it reminds me that I’m always growing, always learning, because not every student in my classroom is successful, and that’s a lesson I carry with me. I got to change my question and just say humility and authenticity because Bill said it.

 

PI: What is a great conversation starter has really stuck with you. And we’ll start with Bill first. No, Adrian.

Bill: Oh. Come on!

Adrian: There’s a series of books I read after college that deeply influenced my spiritual thinking—Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch. One quote from the book has always stuck with me and has become a personal mantra: “If I don’t go within, I go without.”

This quote is about ensuring your mind is in the right space before doing anything, keeping that internal dialogue strong. It’s about self-awareness with humility—if I don’t reflect on that before entering a conversation, I’m just going through the motions, almost like a robot. Bill touched on habits earlier, and many of them are automatic because of how we’ve been raised or taught to think.

I really resonate with the idea of “going within” because you have to understand your values and who you are in order to express yourself authentically. I can honestly say that early in my career, I didn’t have all of that figured out. I was focused on success, trying to say the right things, and use the right language. But that quote has never left me—it still guides me, both in my personal life and spiritually. It’s a reminder to clean up my internal space before I approach anything, because if I don’t go within, I go without.

 

Bill: I’m going to share this podcast with my mom—she’s going to love it. Drumroll, please! This is a phrase I often repeat to myself, and I think it’s a Quaker saying. There’s a song, but I’m not going to sing it, and it goes, “Do a few things. Do them well. Do them meek and lowly.” My mom would chant this from time to time, and it has resonated with me, especially when I think about priorities in my family and the work I do in the world.

The message is clear: we could try to be everything to everyone, but in doing so, we end up being nothing. Or we can focus on a few things, do them really well, and approach them with humility—something we’ve already discussed.

This ties back to what Adrian said earlier about success. If we can’t measure it or see it, it’s hard to define. This connects with the design thinking approach too: if we can’t visualize the next step or outcome we want to achieve, we might focus on the gap—the “what’s missing” or “what could be different.” But if we focus on doing a few things well, investing in them with humility, it becomes a driving force for me. It’s always about serving and accomplishing something that is both measurable and impactful.

 

PI: Last question: what’s next for you? And how can people learn more about CoLAB and how to connect with you both?

Bill: We’re thrilled to announce that we’ve been officially authorized by the Connecticut Department of Education to open two schools—one in Waterbury and one in New Haven. We’re currently planning to open New Haven in 2026 and Waterbury in 2027.

This milestone wouldn’t have been possible without the incredible support of our communities. We received over 3,000 letters of support in each city, and we’re deeply grateful. A special thanks goes to our partner LEAD, a Latino education and advocacy organization, which has been with us from the beginning as a vital community partner.

This is a powerful example of what we’ve envisioned with CoLAB—working with communities, not just for them. LEAD is just one of many community organizations, parents, families, and local leaders who have stood with us, and that support inspires both hope and a strong sense of responsibility.

Adrian and I often talk about turning vision into action. It’s easy to make bold promises, but we’re committed to delivering—not just through intention, but through real, sustained effort to build the schools we’ve dreamed of.

To that end, we’re assembling design teams and learning from innovative school models across the country. We’re studying both what has worked and what hasn’t—ours and others’—so we can unlearn what no longer serves and build something better from the start.

This kind of planning is intentional. We’re already scouting buildings and continuing to foster the community engagement that will take us from classroom to school to the neighborhoods we’re honored to join.

Ultimately, our goal is to bring the principles of 4.0 education to life—not just in our classrooms, but across our communities. By working closely with our partners, we aim to build ecosystems where students and community members grow together.

Adrian: In addition to what Bill shared, around the same time the schools were approved, we launched a new partnership project in Kingston, New York—a small city upstate, and actually my hometown. This initiative is in collaboration with the Novo Foundation, which recently purchased a 70,000+ square foot former industrial building in the heart of Kingston’s Midtown district. The area has long been considered underserved and has seen limited investment in recent decades.

The building is being reimagined as a community learning and innovation hub. While there are models for these types of centers around the country, we’re taking inspiration from best practices and building something unique that addresses the specific needs of the local community. CoLAB’s methods and our 4D Quantum Learning Matrix will serve as a cohesive framework to help unify the space’s programming and support meaningful collaboration.

The hub will eventually house 30 to 40 tenants, including educational programs, job training, a fabrication center, and more—many of which are still being developed. Our goal is to foster synergy and co-generative practices among all participants.

This will be a “next-ready” learning environment—designed not only to upskill community members and provide new opportunities, but also to prepare them for rapid societal and technological changes. It will blend innovative, future-oriented learning with valuable traditional knowledge and skills.

Some features will be more familiar, like an entrepreneurial incubator, pop-up shops for small businesses, and a large community activity center. But what makes this especially exciting is that it gives CoLAB a space to bring our approaches to life outside of traditional schools, which often face structural and legal limitations. With Novo’s support, this hub will allow us to experiment, prototype, and incubate ideas that may eventually be adapted into school settings—particularly through our work with the Metro network.

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Thank you for joining Fanny and I, in this conversation with Bill and Adrian about how we can rethink K-12 education in ways that equip the next generation with the agency, skills, and tools to tackle the challenges our world has yet to solve.

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